Tag: White2Tea

  • Bad Value. High-End Boutique Ripe Report

    Bad Value. High-End Boutique Ripe Report

    High-end ripe was an afterthought when I started drinking tea in the early 2010s. There wasn’t easily accessible fancy ripe to do a tea drinking report and ripe was mostly a cheap thing for daily drinking. When White2Tea released Pretty Girls in 2015, I remember a grumpy murmur from the tea community for having the gall to sell $0.20/g ripe. Absurd! But in the past 10 years these sorts of productions have become normal and part of a larger trend towards higher-end ripe. The $0.20/g ripe looks quaint compared to some of the $/g ripe W2T puts out now.. These teas still get less attention than raw, but as evidenced by the large increase in productions there’s clearly a market for higher priced ripe productions made by boutique brands. We now have several years of products done by the usual suspects, enough to have a drink through. The goal of this report is to sample and get a better feel for the landscape of these higher-end ripes made by boutiques. I’ve dabbled and sampled a few but overall this hasn’t been a major area of focus for my own drinking/sampling. Drinking in close succession allows me to place them more accurately and try to understand the different profiles.

    I am well aware that boutique ripe existed before 2015. My assertion is that the boutique ripe movement has picked up quite a bit more steam in the last 10-15 years.
    As usual with a tea of the month report this grew in scope. I originally only wanted 10 teas, but ended up with nearly 20.
    I did most of the drinking in February before BFZC ripes showed up at LPs. Next time.

    The Two Profiles

    In drinking through these, I feel they generally fall into two different categories.

    1. The Asskicker. More bitter, highly punchy material. This ranges from different punchy Bulang sorts with Bitter material that easily persists through the ripening process (think Lao Man E). I think the concept is that these are highly dense, thick and substantive teas that get partly smoothed out through the ripening and will further smooth out over time.
    2. Refined tea.. These could come from wherever but tend to focus more on texture and aftertaste and lack the bitterness of the more asskicking type.

    Of course these categories aren’t perfect and a vendor like W2T who does heavy, somewhat experimental blending, has some that are more challenging to place. Even for more conventional blending there is a spectrum as there are teas that will have a smaller touch of the asskicking material and balance it with more typical material.

    Both types will generally have much better base material than you wouldn’t normally see in a ripe production.. Most vendors also seem to prefer to keep their boutique ripe on the lighter fermented side of things, although there are some exceptions (W2T Reading Room). The lighter fermentation gives a bit more room for the tea to evolve and change than it would under a more standard fermentation. You can also taste the base profile a bit more clearly. The lighter fermentation also means teas that have a few more years under their belt have softened and evolved a bit.

    Small Pot/Gaiwan Gong-Fu Brewing

    These teas uniformly do not pass the speed test. I brew a lot of ripe, but most of it fits into cheap stuff for daily drinking. My usual ripe brewing is not well suited for this month. As followers of my inbetweenisodes know, I usually have my ripe in my big blue pot in the morning with my wife. This works fine as most ripe is a forgiving and easy brew that does not require an especially meticulous hand. But for this report I mostly brewed gong-fu. Why? For the asskicker types, this makes it much easier to have a good session as the long pour time can lead to extreme overbrewing and some frankly nasty brews. That could be adjusted, but I’d rather just do gong-fu where it’s easier to respond to the tea than hear my wife complain about the bitter tea she’s drinking in the morning. For a few of the more refined ripe I did brew them in both fashions, to see if there was any performance difference. But even in these cases I defaulted to the gong-fu type brewing.

    The Teas

    White2tea

    For the past decade, White2tea has gotten a lot of attention for their “outrageously” priced ripe. I admire the experimental nature of many of these and do enjoy trying them. They are especially well suited for regular TeaDB episode material with Denny, where we can admire the dynamic, engaging nature of the teas together. White2tea’s teas are probably the most complex and interesting to analyze of the lot.

    On the flip-side none pass the speed test for myself. The teas aren’t casual or cheap enough for daily drinking and I’d usually rather drink a Liubao or a raw with some age, even with less dynamism. That all being said, from a sheer let’s talk about tea the fancy W2T teas are fun and interesting..

    2024 W2T Machine of Loving Grace (6.6)

    Decent, but unexciting tea. Rich, creamy, with some bitterness. It reminds me of a fancier Bawang with a bit more texture to enjoy. Hints at some citrus. It’s kind of stuck in no man’s land, where it is expensive for what it is but not as interesting as W2T’s more expensive ripes.

    2023 W2T Reading Room (7.5)

    Interesting in the sense that this is far more fully fermented than a lot of the other high-end W2T ripes. As a result, this feels a bit more settled and is indeed quite tasty. Rich, full flavors. Perhaps some sort of Menghai/Bulang blend made of good strong robust material. It feels like a very good version of  classical ripe. Rich, vanilla cream. Throat leaves a good aftertaste. There’s a lot of fun complexities to this but this is ultimately an easy tea to understand and enjoy.

    2022 W2T Lich Tears (8)

    Probably the most interesting W2T ripe and definitely an asskicker. Very complex. It is quite tasty now, but also should get even better. Unlike Reading Room, this is clearly a lighter fermented ripe. It has a very active protracted mouthfeel and small amount of silk texture. Flavor is coco, rich, vanilla cream. A lot has been made about this tea’s bitterness and it definitely has a sturdy vein of pill bitterness flowing through it, but I don’t find it overwhelms the other flavors. It’s definitely not the most bitter tea of the month. The bitterness is most pronounced in steeps 3-5, before fading away. It is also accompanied with some nice sweetness. Very hard to rank as it clearly hasn’t hit its potential.

    2021 W2T Reckless Daughter (7.8)

    This was the surprise hit of the W2T batch for me. Had it once and liked it a good amount and subsequent sessions cemented it as a very solid and promising ripe.

    Reckless Daughter is clearly lighter fermented, but feels cut from a different cloth than W2T’s other ripes. Lighter leaf and brews a dark red hue. It is more regal and refined than the more rambunctious asskicker types. There is bitterness but it’s not the pill sort. Very dynamic, thick, satisfying. Good aftertaste. Set aside a session for Denny later. This is good stuff and different from something like Lich.

    2020 W2T The Nameless One (7.2)

    Vanilla cream, some bitterness. Coco. This seems to fall in the fancy Bulang (Lao Man E/Banzhang) blend. I initially liked this a bit more, but in the context of other high-end ripes it stands out less. It is still complex and a very good tea, just not as gripping as I originally thought when I recorded an inbetweenisode a few years ago. I would personally pick Lich Tears or Reckless Daughter over this.

    Yunnan Sourcing (& Hailang Hao)

    Compared to W2T, Yunnan Sourcing and Hailang Hao lean a bit more conventional with their fancy ripe cakes. They aren’t as wildly blended or as dynamic, but have more straightforward easier to understand profiles. Generally speaking, this is my preference even if it might not generate the Thinking Denny memes quite as effectively. They also generally fit neatly into the two popular boutique ripe profiles, asskicker (Lao Man E, Xin Banzhang) and refined (Yibang).. I’d also say, that YS current year or last two year cakes are easily the better value (the HLH cakes get expensive quickly!).

    2024 YS Lao Man E Old Tree (7.1)

    This fits exactly the image I have of Lao Man E ripe. Pill-like bitterness. Thick vanilla cream. A bit of citrus. Gradually it gets even more bitter before it tapers off. I braced for this profile and found it thick and satisfying. Sometimes tea is helped by certain expectations. That is the case here. If I expected a more conventional ripe, I would hate this. Bracing for the bitter, allows me to appreciate this quite a bit more.

    I think this is just a little too bitter for my tastes currently but I do get the appeal. Probably would brew way too strong in my big blue pot (did not attempt).

    2024 YS Xin Banzhang Offering (6.8)

    One of the less expensive teas of the month. Basically the budget ass kicker profile. Has a nice bittersweet profile, its bitterness is definitely a bit more balanced with other material. Decent amount of tips. My memory of the 2023 is that it got a bit more bitter.

    Second session with this had it performing a bit more like a slightly less bitter version of the YS LME/Chawang. Sturdy profile, expansive mouth feel, pill-like bitterness. It’s not overly strong but has a clear and if you’re ready for it pleasing profile. Probably the lowest cost way to get this sort of profile of the teas featured .

    2023 YS Lao Man E Old Tree (6.7)

    I think I may’ve had a slightly off session. The session lacked the clarity of the 2024 or the Chawang which I’d had the day before. Definitely hints at the profile of the 2024 or 2023 Chawang, but feels a bit different in a way I can’t quite put my finger on. Gets a bit bitter, but not to the level of the 2024 or the Chawang.

    2023 YS Chawang (7.5)

    Basically should be treated like a LME ripe-base. Greener nose than expected. Hints at fruit, but is sturdily bitter. Definitely of the pill sort.  Light wood, vanilla cream. Strong, thick mouthfeel. I knew it was coming and I very much enjoyed it. In my limited experience, this is my favorite of the YS asskickers.

    2021 YS 5 Villages Bingdao (6.6)

    The charms of Bingdao and northern tea are somewhat lost on me. I’ve yet to be enchanted by many raw tea from there. Sadly this ripe falls into the same camp. It is decent enough and essentially presents as a very clean and decent ripe with nice texture and some mouth cooling. Compared to the asskickers it isn’t particularly potent and its charms don’t live up to my more preferred refined tea.

    Hailang Hao

    2019 HLH Lao Banzhang (7.5)

    Fits very neatly into the asskicker category. It is a very solid and sturdily made tea. Not quite as bitter as the Chawang or some of the LME. Thick, vanilla cream, protracted mouthfeel, very potent brew. It also lasts for quite a while.

    2018 HLH Gaoshanzhai (7.4)

    I probably enjoy this equally to the HLH LBZ. Caramel, brown sugar, antique wood, nice throat aftertaste. It is also sufficiently thick and oily. After getting through quite a few high-end ripes, this one still managed to stand out. It’s not as textured as the Dragon Brick, but has a greater depth that is very appealing.

    Despite being more in the refined category the GSZ is notably lightly fermented. In a mug in my normal morning parameters it packed more of a punch than I anticipated. If we compare this with other of the more refined teas there’s a sharper edge to it than something like the 2012 Xizi Hao Dragon Brick which was likely lightly fermented but aged longer and partly in Taiwan.

    2017 HLH Junai (7.2)

    Rich, sugary aroma. Vanilla cream, decently heavy pill bitterness. Solid, clear profile. Nothing too dynamic and wild.

    I like this just a touch less than the LBZ. The longevity isn’t as good and it feels a bit less thick. Still if you want to get the gist of that tea, I think this is a reasonable substitute and doesn’t cost over $1,000!

    Other

    2024 CSH Lao Banzhang (6)

    Smells of Wo Dui. Thinner and watery compared to the other teas. It does thicken up. I am definitely drinking this too young, and overall it’s OK, but it is fairly disappointing for such an expensive ripe.

    I had this as a big mug brew the next day and unfortunately it still didn’t impress. Perhaps it needs to settle. I gave the rest of my sample to Denny who said it was fantastic. Tea is inconsistent sometimes.

    2016 Denong Commemorative (6.4)

    This is an OK enough tea, but a disappointment as a higher-end ripe. I find this to be perfectly decent, but kind of dull. I don’t doubt there’s quality material here but it doesn’t seem to have a clear purpose or the cohesion like the better teas.

    Tastewise it is lighter fermented, has a slight silk texture and a decent body. Otherwise a fairly standard ripe profile. Brewed in the big blue pot it more or less confirms what my gong-fu session. Maybe a bit cooler than a standard ripe. I would guess, likely not Menghai County material..

    2012 Xizi Hao Dragon Brick (7.3)

    Brighter nose. Complex, antique wood. Very nice texture. Not super thick. Definitely a more refined sort of tea despite having that familiar vanilla cream taste. I’ve heard that some people think this is small leaf varietal, which is believable for me. Compared to something like the HLH Gaoshan Zhai this offers more texture and a bit less depth.

    Overall pretty enjoyable and assuming the 2013 is similar, one of the better value buys.

    2007/2008? Chenyuan Hao (6.4)

    Only had a sessions worth left. Sweet, has a nice antique wood aroma and a moderately oily body. It’s not watery like the CSH, but doesn’t really stand out that much when put against other fancy ripes. We liked this quite a bit when we had this for an episode, so maybe I just got a lesser session at the bottom of the sample bag.

    2008 Xizi Hao Xishangjiaxi (8)

    A late addition as I had forgotten about its existence, but I own two mini-cakes of it which I discovered while clearing out my old shu cabinet. In my memory this was a good tea, but didn’t remember much else.

    In the end, it’s amongst my favorite brews of the month. Definitely in the refined category of shu. Far more of an aged taste than anything else this month, with menthol, antique wood notes. Coats mouth and throat very well and has better depth than most other teas here. In my previous sessions I had noted berries, which have aged out. Flaw-wise it is not ultra thick, but that is nitpicking as this was a perfectly satisfying session.

    CYH/XZH must’ve been pretty early on these special products. I haven’t seen many more as early as this.

    2007 Dayi Anxiang (8)

    We got a big factory RINGER!!??? What’s a ripe report without some Dayi! Bought a cake recently from taobao. The cakes from the Dayi store came drier stored than I had expected. For the raw this was not exactly what I hoped, but for this cake I think it’s pretty ideal as it maintains a good deal of complexity.

    Complex, thick, light mouthcool, antique wood. Coats the mouth nicely. Moderate thickness. It’s tip heavy and falls off a bit fast. This is great stuff. It confuses me how this is still relatively affordable! Perhaps there’s just not too many pu-heads into more serious ripe and the ripe drinkers would never spend this amount on a cake? Either way, this is worth a buy if you are a ripe drinker who wants the good stuff.

    Recommendations

    If you really want value for your buck. I think the older teas are better. The serious tea world has never seemed to take ripe as seriously as raw, and the prices haven’t risen as fast as raw has. I am surprised at how cheap you can find things like the Anxiang (I bought mine for around $100, $0.25/g). Similarly the XZH Dragon Brick is also a good ripe and can be bought in the US domestically from Liquid Proust for $0.40/g ($400/1000g). This is also a very good price when you put it up against anything made in the last few years.

    I haven’t really had any asskicking type ripe older than the 2017 HLH Junai so it’s harder to find this type for less. This is too bad as I think these probably significantly improve with age. For those on a budget the 2024 YS Xin Banzhang offers the basic profile without being too expensive. Probably the best bet here is something like the 2023 YS Chawang, which I preferred over YS LME products and I find to be reasonably close to the more expensive HLH products.

    In terms of overall recommendations, I think Reckless Daughter and Lich Tears represent their respective categories of modern boutique ripe very well. They are markedly pricier than the value recommendations but if value is less important I think they’re worth checking out.

    Buying these is of not the only way to buy pricy ripe. You could also buy older factory tea from the 2000s or 1990s. These teas are often thought of as superior to their more modern cousins, mostly due to the factories having access to better material.

    Value Recs:

    • 2012 Xizi Hao Dragon Brick
    • 2007 Dayi Anxiang
    • 2024 YS Xin Banzhang
    • 2023 YS Chawang (not really cheap, but significantly less than HLH/W2T)

    Other Recs:

    • 2021 W2T Reckless Daughter
    • 2022 W2T Lich Tears

    Takeaways

    It is nice to drink pu’erh without considerations about processing and aging. Drinking ripe tea is more straightforward compared with the vigorous debate about which raw teas are better and will age. Perhaps it’s because all the oxygen is sucked up during those debates, or there’s just less to discuss on the more gradual transformation of ripe.

    Is there space in my tea diet for these teas? Frankly I’m not sure. In the past, I’ve historically reached for something older or traditionally stored when I want something in a darker, fermented profile. That being said, the selection we have available now is better than it has been in the past. I do indeed like most of the teas here. So perhaps I’ll report back in a couple years. At worst, for the more refined types I can drink them up in the big blue pot in the morning as an overpriced casual brew.

    Ripe narrows the bandwidth of teas compared with raw. In typing up these notes I realized how similar each tea sounds to one another. Even teas that are fairly divergent from one another like the HLH LBZ vs. HLH GSZ will have a fair bit of crossover on notes. I also think I’d burn out of these faster if I drank too many of them. Now… Before I type vanilla cream for the 155th time and am forced to add Masochist to another tea report, I will move on.

    Tea Maker $ Size $/g Rating
    2022 Lich Tears White2Tea $238.50 200 $1.19 8
    2023 Reading Room White2Tea $178.00 200 $0.89 7.5
    2021 Reckless Daughter White2Tea $148.00 200 $0.74 7.8
    2024 Machines of Loving Grace White2Tea $125.00 200 $0.63 6.6
    2020 Nameless One White2Tea $155.00 200 $0.78 7.2
    2024 Lao Banzhang Chensheng Hao $379.00 200 $1.90 6
    2007 Anxiang Dayi $110.00 400 $0.28 8
    2023 Chawang Yunnan Sourcing $133.25 200 $0.67 7.5
    2024 Lao Mane Old Tree Yunnan Sourcing $88.00 200 $0.41 7.1
    2023 Lao Mane Old Tree Yunnan Sourcing $102.00 250 $0.26 6.7
    2024 Xin Banzhang Yunnan Sourcing $93.00 357 $0.26 6.8
    2021 5 Villages Bingdao Yunnan Sourcing $109.25 200 $0.55 6.6
    2012 Dragon Brick Xizi Hao 1000 7.3
    2008 Xishangjaixi Xizi Hao 100 8
    2008 Ripe Chenyuan Hao 6.4
    2016 Denong Commemorative Denong $68.00 100 $0.68 6.4
    2021 Gaoshanzhai Hailang Hao $374.00 500 $0.75 7.4
    2017 Junai Hailang Hao $566.50 500 $1.13 7.2
    2017 Lao Banzhang Hailang Hao $1,155.00 500 $2.31 7.5
  • Denny’s Raw Puerh Tea Aging Project + DIY Smart Pumador

    Denny’s Raw Puerh Tea Aging Project + DIY Smart Pumador

    [Live Document]Tea Den Aging Project Goals:

    • Accurate representation of variables influencing tea aging
    • Accurate visual representation of tea aging over time
    • Subjective perspective of tea aging over time

    Creating a “Smart” Pumador

    Materials & Tools:

      • HomeAssistant
      • Wifi Smart Socket
      • Zigbee Humidity & Temperature Sensor
      • Seedling Heating Mat
      • Boveda 69% Two-Way Humidity Control Pack, Size 320
      • Insulation
      • NodeMCU ESP32 SBC
      • SHTC3 Temperature and Humidity Sensor

    Version 1:

    I used a Zigbee-protocol humidity and temperature sensor to start (the square device in there).  While zigbee is great for household lights, zigbee devices work best in a tight mesh with amplifier or repeaters within the system.  As my pumador is far away from other zigbee devices, the quality of the signal was iffy at best, and the sensors in this device aren’t great.

    pumador v1

    Gotta build my own I guess.

    Version 2:

    I’m using a ESP32 board (NodeMCU 38 pinout) and a SHTC3 humidity and temperature sensor.  Way way better.

    Wrap it up in blankets:

    Here is the added logic beyond a standard ESPHome template for an ESP32 device, in case you want to build your own:

    • i2c:
      • sda: GPIO21
      • scl: GPIO22
      • scan: true
    • sensor:
      • – platform: shtcx
      • temperature:
        • name: “Pumador Temperature”
      • humidity:
        • name: “Pumador Humidity”
      • update_interval: 30s

    While it does require a wired power source (I mean I could run this off a portable battery but w/e), this device is way way way more accurate.

    I also moved my pumador into the room adjacent to our furnace to reduce the burden on the heating pad and save a bit of money.  The concern in this room is the ambient humidity is extremely low, but so far so good!

    Here’s how it looks inside my HomeAssistant UI:

    Wattage reading, effectively its power cycle visualized:

    DATA DATA DATA

    Humidity and temperature updates every hour directly from my pumedor to the interactive graph below.

    Publish It Online, Of Course

    Naturally I had to figure out a way to get it online.  I’m using HomeAssistant’s API, pulling data to a spreadsheet file via an hourly cron job, which I then run some simple python on to generate the above graph.  It also takes a screenshot and updates the featured image of this blog post hourly.

    The chart is embedded with an iframe on this page — I dare you to inspect this page’s code — so if you wanna use it yourself, here’s the URL: https://teadb.org/humidity_temperature_graph.html

    Also, weird.  We talked about this.

    Also also, the above URL gives you a fullscreen view of the data for even more pixels, if that’s your thing.  You’re still weird.

    Taking Photos: Color Accuracy Over Time

    Turns out, to do this right is hard.

    My 80/20 TLDR:

    • Taking photos at night
    • Same lighting setup
    • Take a lot of photos
    • Color match photos across time

    Materials & Tools

    • RawTherapee
    • Color Correction Card

    Lighting Setup

    White2Tea Hypnotrain

    TeaDB Episode #520: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFJ9Hy2Nho

    URL: https://white2tea.com/products/2022-hypnotrain

    Photos taken on 1/28/25:

     

  • Young Sheng Variety Pack. The Western Tea Scene Has Loads of Young Sheng Options

    In my first couple years of drinking pu’erh I sampled heavily. Many vendors and many different teas. While I originally did not go into it with a goal of trying specifically young pu’erh, this ended up making a pretty strong majority of pu’erh that I sampled. This is due to a few factors. One is that there’s a predictable vendor drop with the harvest, sometime in late Spring/early summer or in mid-Autumn. This generates demand and buzz amongst the tea community. The second is that young pu’erh makes up the vast majority of raw pu’erh being sold to the west. If you put together a list of the five most popular western pu’erh-centric vendors and listed all of the teas they’ve released in the past year and randomly picked 10, you’d likely end up with ~8 or so being young pu’erh. You actually need to be pretty intentional about not picking young pu’erh if you want to try a different category of raw pu’erh..

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  • 2020 Tea Progress Report

    I’ve stored tea for around six years now in Seattle and while I’ve fussed a bit over a few small things, the methodology has been overall consistent. The pu’erh has been stored in an enclosed container with Boveda packs to ramp up the humidity to around 65RH. Airflow is low. Most people would call this a pumidor. Every year I look at my spreadsheet and decide on pulling a few teas to retry.

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  • 2017 W2T Happy Anniversary Baby Raw Pu’erh [Episode 352]

    This episode Denny and I drink a W2T production from 3 years ago. The tea is rumored to be an Yiwu and is decently punchy but with a good aftertaste and overall structure. Sent in by Atlas. Thank you!
    https://white2tea.com/

  • Marco Hotbox Experiment (Bosch) Comparison

    The most interesting storage experiment in the west is a heated cooler filled with mylar bags of pu’erh in Toronto. This is of course Marco’s hotbox experiment where cakes are conditioned to generate 63-69RH and then stored at fixed temperatures. I was lucky enough to get two five gram samples of tea from Marco that were stored in the box for two years. One was stored at both 23C (~73-74F) and the other at 32C (~89-90F) sent by Marco.

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  • 2017 White2Tea Sunday Special Ripe Pu’erh [Episode 348]

    This episode, Denny and I drink a thick, well-balanced ripe pu’erh from an old favorite. Thank you to shah8 for sending this tea in. I consumed this tea a couple years ago when it was released and it is interesting to see how it has evolved in the meantime.

    https://www.white2tea.com/

  • 2019 Pu’erh from Western Vendors are More Expensive Than Ever. Three Ways to Look at Price.

    I’ve been updating a spreadsheet on pu’erh prices on release for the past few years in order to get an idea of tea being offered to western consumers and any possible trends. The well-known popular narrative is that fresh pu’erh prices have gone up and this certainly seems true in the data. Last year the prices looked about the same as the previous year. And when and how much the price has gone up depends on how we look at this and there’s a handful of different ways to look at the data and options available (I do three here).

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  • 2018 W2T Censers White Tea [Episode 344]

    In this video, Denny and I drink a pressed white tea blend from White2Tea. The tea is still quite fresh but dynamic and quite complex. https://white2tea.com/

  • Aging Whites & Aged Whites. What I Learned From Char

    Recently, Char (Oolong Owl) joined me for an inbetweenisode to discuss aging and aged white tea. Aged whites have become a topic of increasing interest in the west, and while Denny and I have brought a few onto the show it has not been a principal area of interest for us. Here’s a few of the big points and takeaways I had from that conversation with her. I highly recommend checking out Oolong Owl’s blog and reading up on white teas. She’s written as extensively as any English-language blogger on different aged whites. I recommend watching the original video for those interested in this topic. This is my summation and interpretation of much of the material discussed in the video.

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