I don’t buy as much tea as I did in my peak years.. But last year bought a few cakes of 2008 Dayi 8582 off of taobao. I also had a local tea friend traveling home to Malaysia buy a few cakes of 2008 7542 when he was there. In the case of the 8582, I’ve always liked the recipe and the tea meets a lot of my drinking criteria. And 7542 is classic.. But why now? As those that follow pu’erh know, Dayi prices have been falling. The past couple years have been a particularly good opportunity to buy good enough factory tea for a reasonable price. A significant added bonus for those of us in drier climates is that 2005-2009 tea are now over 15 years old. The 8582 was a little over $50 and while of course there’s forwarder fees, even when included the price is still less than $60.
Note: There’s also inflation to consider, which would make the pricing of tea today even more favorable if it’s around the same $$ as 2020 or before.
15 Year Old Factory Tea Recipes Used to be Expensive
When the first episode of TeaDB was released (2013), 15+ year old well-known factory tea was hard to find and very expensive if you could. That would be teas like the 1997 Menghai TF Water Mark and 1998 Xiaguan 8653 Cakes or Tuochas. Today in 2025, it’s easy to find and not that expensive. Even before Dayi recently dropped in price, it was still far less. Obviously the fanciest productions of the year are not cheap, but well known benchmark recipes like the 7542 and 8582 are attainable. Compared with Dayi, other factories are usually even more inexpensive.
In the US there are a decent amount of teas to choose from, even amongst just the two big factories. This is due to a few factors. Most significantly – production ramped up significantly during the 1990s and into the 2000s, leading to increasing abundance of pu’erh. Along with the higher quantity came complaints that the quality of material and/or processing doesn’t live up to the 1990s or earlier standards (also true).
Still.. Even with lower quality material, I think these teas are worthwhile and do fit into my own tea diet assuming they are properly aged.
Where to Buy Factory Tea?
Here’s how I breakdown the buying options.
Big Online Store that sells all sorts of tea and is Western Facing.
The two most obvious of these are:
King Tea Mall
Yunnan Sourcing
Pros:
Reliable. I’d strongly recommend you buy from these over a random local shop or Amazon. While there’s occasionally a complaint of a bad sale, these are prolific sellers with a mostly satisfied customer base. You get what you buy and storage is usually accurately described. If you bought from a smaller retailer or a local shop, the cake vetting and storage may or may not be on point.
Markup isn’t extreme.
Sampling might be possible. A big advantage if you just want to try.
Simple. Will ship straight to you.
Cons:
Selection is limited to what they have in stock. If you’re just looking to try a few different teas, they should be good enough but if you’re looking for something specific you may or may not find it here. King Tea Mall (basically a taobao-reseller) probably has the widest selection of any western facing store.
Price is not the cheapest possible. These are marked up more than if you had full access to the Chinese or Taiwanese market.
I do this option from time to time, particularly for ripe. It’s often not worth it to spend that much time optimizing for the lowest price on a $20 ripe cake. The convenience of buying from Yunnan Sourcing US here outweighs the slightly higher price for me.
A related option – you can also buy Dayi from a curator like Teas We Like or The Jade Leaf or more recently Quiche Teas. The pros and cons are fairly obvious, the main negative being selection and sampling are limited. One major pro if you trust the curator is that they’ll have potentially tested the specific batch and storage and removed some of the risk.
Taobao / Dayi Authorized Taobao or TMall Store
This is what I did in purchasing the 2008 8582, I bought from an office Dayi Retailer.
Pros:
Price. Good way to get tea fairly directly. With prices having fallen slowly, these are often the best place to get the best deal. Even comparing the 2008 8582 cake price with King Tea Mall, there’s a large difference in the pricing.
Reliable. These are big stores and if you order from an authorized store they should be perfectly fine.
Ordering from Taobao and using a shipping agent is easier than it’s been in the past.
Cons:
Samples are almost never offered.
You’ll need to use google translate as these storefronts are not intended for a foreign audience.
Shipping agent. To get the tea, you’d first order on Taobao and have the tea shipped to a 3rd party agent who will then ship it internationally to you. I’ve used a few agents, the latest being shipforwarder. I’ve also been satisfied with Super Buy. Alternatively you can have the agent order for you, but you may miss out on vendor discounts and specials that are offered directly from the vendor. i.e. Tong discounts. In the end this option is still likely significantly cheaper than KTM or YS.
Other Taobao Vendors & Non-Dayi Factories
Seven or eight years ago you could find Dayi tea from a lot of different vendors including unauthorized dealers. At some point they tightened the screws and Dayi tea became a bit harder to get outside of the authorized retailers. Xiaguan never did this, so you can still use taobao search function to find Xiaguan fairly easily. I’ve ordered from MX Tea for 8 or 9 years now, and they’ve always been fine with reliably decent storage.
To order from other taobao vendors you’d follow the same protocol as a Dayi authorized taobao.
Taiwanese Vendors (or Auctions)
One of the bigger changes in the last 7 or 8 years is the amount of people buying from Taiwanese-based pu’erh vendors. I’m sure from the vendor’s perspective it’s an insignificant number, but for a small niche community it feels like there’s more commerce directly from vendors who aren’t specifically trying to sell to the west.
The popular shipping agent here is EZStar, who primarily uses facebook to communicate. This works the same way as a Taobao agent. You can use them to send money to the tea vendor and as a ship forwarder. Occasionally vendors will be able to ship direct to the US, but you may need to wire money, which is something an agent can also help with.
Taiwanese auctions are exactly what it sounds like. An auction for pu’erh cakes. It takes place on facebook. Some cheap, some expensive. My advice: try to get some idea what you’re doing and setup the agent before bothering vendors. Talk to people who have used auctions before. Don’t bid on something cluelessly and try to figure it out later.
Is The Price Good? Using Donghe For Reference
Finally, how do you determine if the price you’re about to pay is good. Donghe is a good reference point for Dayi tea. It’s important to note that Donghe is a wholesaler and you can’t reasonably expect a vendor selling a cake or even a tong to match the price. What Donghe is good for is to get a quick look at if the price is reasonable or not. For instance, if Donghe is telling you that a jian costs 10,000RMB you can translate that to a cake price of around $33 (divide by 42 cakes). If you are about to buy it for $250, you’ll know you might be able to find a better price elsewhere.
Donghe is also based in mainland China. The Taiwanese market may be a bit slower to react to pricing changes on the mainland.
High-end ripe was an afterthought when I started drinking tea in the early 2010s. There wasn’t easily accessible fancy ripe to do a tea drinking report and ripe was mostly a cheap thing for daily drinking. When White2Tea released Pretty Girls in 2015, I remember a grumpy murmur from the tea community for having the gall to sell $0.20/g ripe. Absurd! But in the past 10 years these sorts of productions have become normal and part of a larger trend towards higher-end ripe. The $0.20/g ripe looks quaint compared to some of the $/g ripe W2T puts out now.. These teas still get less attention than raw, but as evidenced by the large increase in productions there’s clearly a market for higher priced ripe productions made by boutique brands. We now have several years of products done by the usual suspects, enough to have a drink through. The goal of this report is to sample and get a better feel for the landscape of these higher-end ripes made by boutiques. I’ve dabbled and sampled a few but overall this hasn’t been a major area of focus for my own drinking/sampling. Drinking in close succession allows me to place them more accurately and try to understand the different profiles.
I am well aware that boutique ripe existed before 2015. My assertion is that the boutique ripe movement has picked up quite a bit more steam in the last 10-15 years. As usual with a tea of the month report this grew in scope. I originally only wanted 10 teas, but ended up with nearly 20.
I did most of the drinking in February before BFZC ripes showed up at LPs. Next time.
The Two Profiles
In drinking through these, I feel they generally fall into two different categories.
The Asskicker. More bitter, highly punchy material. This ranges from different punchy Bulang sorts with Bitter material that easily persists through the ripening process (think Lao Man E). I think the concept is that these are highly dense, thick and substantive teas that get partly smoothed out through the ripening and will further smooth out over time.
Refined tea.. These could come from wherever but tend to focus more on texture and aftertaste and lack the bitterness of the more asskicking type.
Of course these categories aren’t perfect and a vendor like W2T who does heavy, somewhat experimental blending, has some that are more challenging to place. Even for more conventional blending there is a spectrum as there are teas that will have a smaller touch of the asskicking material and balance it with more typical material.
Both types will generally have much better base material than you wouldn’t normally see in a ripe production.. Most vendors also seem to prefer to keep their boutique ripe on the lighter fermented side of things, although there are some exceptions (W2T Reading Room). The lighter fermentation gives a bit more room for the tea to evolve and change than it would under a more standard fermentation. You can also taste the base profile a bit more clearly. The lighter fermentation also means teas that have a few more years under their belt have softened and evolved a bit.
Small Pot/Gaiwan Gong-Fu Brewing
These teas uniformly do not pass the speed test. I brew a lot of ripe, but most of it fits into cheap stuff for daily drinking. My usual ripe brewing is not well suited for this month. As followers of my inbetweenisodes know, I usually have my ripe in my big blue pot in the morning with my wife. This works fine as most ripe is a forgiving and easy brew that does not require an especially meticulous hand. But for this report I mostly brewed gong-fu. Why? For the asskicker types, this makes it much easier to have a good session as the long pour time can lead to extreme overbrewing and some frankly nasty brews. That could be adjusted, but I’d rather just do gong-fu where it’s easier to respond to the tea than hear my wife complain about the bitter tea she’s drinking in the morning. For a few of the more refined ripe I did brew them in both fashions, to see if there was any performance difference. But even in these cases I defaulted to the gong-fu type brewing.
The Teas
White2tea
For the past decade, White2tea has gotten a lot of attention for their “outrageously” priced ripe. I admire the experimental nature of many of these and do enjoy trying them. They are especially well suited for regular TeaDB episode material with Denny, where we can admire the dynamic, engaging nature of the teas together. White2tea’s teas are probably the most complex and interesting to analyze of the lot.
On the flip-side none pass the speed test for myself. The teas aren’t casual or cheap enough for daily drinking and I’d usually rather drink a Liubao or a raw with some age, even with less dynamism. That all being said, from a sheer let’s talk about tea the fancy W2T teas are fun and interesting..
2024 W2T Machine of Loving Grace (6.6)
Decent, but unexciting tea. Rich, creamy, with some bitterness. It reminds me of a fancier Bawang with a bit more texture to enjoy. Hints at some citrus. It’s kind of stuck in no man’s land, where it is expensive for what it is but not as interesting as W2T’s more expensive ripes.
2023 W2T Reading Room (7.5)
Interesting in the sense that this is far more fully fermented than a lot of the other high-end W2T ripes. As a result, this feels a bit more settled and is indeed quite tasty. Rich, full flavors. Perhaps some sort of Menghai/Bulang blend made of good strong robust material. It feels like a very good version of classical ripe. Rich, vanilla cream. Throat leaves a good aftertaste. There’s a lot of fun complexities to this but this is ultimately an easy tea to understand and enjoy.
2022 W2T Lich Tears (8)
Probably the most interesting W2T ripe and definitely an asskicker. Very complex. It is quite tasty now, but also should get even better. Unlike Reading Room, this is clearly a lighter fermented ripe. It has a very active protracted mouthfeel and small amount of silk texture. Flavor is coco, rich, vanilla cream. A lot has been made about this tea’s bitterness and it definitely has a sturdy vein of pill bitterness flowing through it, but I don’t find it overwhelms the other flavors. It’s definitely not the most bitter tea of the month. The bitterness is most pronounced in steeps 3-5, before fading away. It is also accompanied with some nice sweetness. Very hard to rank as it clearly hasn’t hit its potential.
2021 W2T Reckless Daughter (7.8)
This was the surprise hit of the W2T batch for me. Had it once and liked it a good amount and subsequent sessions cemented it as a very solid and promising ripe.
Reckless Daughter is clearly lighter fermented, but feels cut from a different cloth than W2T’s other ripes. Lighter leaf and brews a dark red hue. It is more regal and refined than the more rambunctious asskicker types. There is bitterness but it’s not the pill sort. Very dynamic, thick, satisfying. Good aftertaste. Set aside a session for Denny later. This is good stuff and different from something like Lich.
2020 W2T The Nameless One (7.2)
Vanilla cream, some bitterness. Coco. This seems to fall in the fancy Bulang (Lao Man E/Banzhang) blend. I initially liked this a bit more, but in the context of other high-end ripes it stands out less. It is still complex and a very good tea, just not as gripping as I originally thought when I recorded an inbetweenisode a few years ago. I would personally pick Lich Tears or Reckless Daughter over this.
Yunnan Sourcing (& Hailang Hao)
Compared to W2T, Yunnan Sourcing and Hailang Hao lean a bit more conventional with their fancy ripe cakes. They aren’t as wildly blended or as dynamic, but have more straightforward easier to understand profiles. Generally speaking, this is my preference even if it might not generate the Thinking Denny memes quite as effectively. They also generally fit neatly into the two popular boutique ripe profiles, asskicker (Lao Man E, Xin Banzhang) and refined (Yibang).. I’d also say, that YS current year or last two year cakes are easily the better value (the HLH cakes get expensive quickly!).
2024 YS Lao Man E Old Tree (7.1)
This fits exactly the image I have of Lao Man E ripe. Pill-like bitterness. Thick vanilla cream. A bit of citrus. Gradually it gets even more bitter before it tapers off. I braced for this profile and found it thick and satisfying. Sometimes tea is helped by certain expectations. That is the case here. If I expected a more conventional ripe, I would hate this. Bracing for the bitter, allows me to appreciate this quite a bit more.
I think this is just a little too bitter for my tastes currently but I do get the appeal. Probably would brew way too strong in my big blue pot (did not attempt).
2024 YS Xin Banzhang Offering (6.8)
One of the less expensive teas of the month. Basically the budget ass kicker profile. Has a nice bittersweet profile, its bitterness is definitely a bit more balanced with other material. Decent amount of tips. My memory of the 2023 is that it got a bit more bitter.
Second session with this had it performing a bit more like a slightly less bitter version of the YS LME/Chawang. Sturdy profile, expansive mouth feel, pill-like bitterness. It’s not overly strong but has a clear and if you’re ready for it pleasing profile. Probably the lowest cost way to get this sort of profile of the teas featured .
2023 YS Lao Man E Old Tree (6.7)
I think I may’ve had a slightly off session. The session lacked the clarity of the 2024 or the Chawang which I’d had the day before. Definitely hints at the profile of the 2024 or 2023 Chawang, but feels a bit different in a way I can’t quite put my finger on. Gets a bit bitter, but not to the level of the 2024 or the Chawang.
2023 YS Chawang (7.5)
Basically should be treated like a LME ripe-base. Greener nose than expected. Hints at fruit, but is sturdily bitter. Definitely of the pill sort. Light wood, vanilla cream. Strong, thick mouthfeel. I knew it was coming and I very much enjoyed it. In my limited experience, this is my favorite of the YS asskickers.
2021 YS 5 Villages Bingdao (6.6)
The charms of Bingdao and northern tea are somewhat lost on me. I’ve yet to be enchanted by many raw tea from there. Sadly this ripe falls into the same camp. It is decent enough and essentially presents as a very clean and decent ripe with nice texture and some mouth cooling. Compared to the asskickers it isn’t particularly potent and its charms don’t live up to my more preferred refined tea.
Hailang Hao
2019 HLH Lao Banzhang (7.5)
Fits very neatly into the asskicker category. It is a very solid and sturdily made tea. Not quite as bitter as the Chawang or some of the LME. Thick, vanilla cream, protracted mouthfeel, very potent brew. It also lasts for quite a while.
2018 HLH Gaoshanzhai (7.4)
I probably enjoy this equally to the HLH LBZ. Caramel, brown sugar, antique wood, nice throat aftertaste. It is also sufficiently thick and oily. After getting through quite a few high-end ripes, this one still managed to stand out. It’s not as textured as the Dragon Brick, but has a greater depth that is very appealing.
Despite being more in the refined category the GSZ is notably lightly fermented. In a mug in my normal morning parameters it packed more of a punch than I anticipated. If we compare this with other of the more refined teas there’s a sharper edge to it than something like the 2012 Xizi Hao Dragon Brick which was likely lightly fermented but aged longer and partly in Taiwan.
2017 HLH Junai (7.2)
Rich, sugary aroma. Vanilla cream, decently heavy pill bitterness. Solid, clear profile. Nothing too dynamic and wild.
I like this just a touch less than the LBZ. The longevity isn’t as good and it feels a bit less thick. Still if you want to get the gist of that tea, I think this is a reasonable substitute and doesn’t cost over $1,000!
Other
2024 CSH Lao Banzhang (6)
Smells of Wo Dui. Thinner and watery compared to the other teas. It does thicken up. I am definitely drinking this too young, and overall it’s OK, but it is fairly disappointing for such an expensive ripe.
I had this as a big mug brew the next day and unfortunately it still didn’t impress. Perhaps it needs to settle. I gave the rest of my sample to Denny who said it was fantastic. Tea is inconsistent sometimes.
2016 Denong Commemorative (6.4)
This is an OK enough tea, but a disappointment as a higher-end ripe. I find this to be perfectly decent, but kind of dull. I don’t doubt there’s quality material here but it doesn’t seem to have a clear purpose or the cohesion like the better teas.
Tastewise it is lighter fermented, has a slight silk texture and a decent body. Otherwise a fairly standard ripe profile. Brewed in the big blue pot it more or less confirms what my gong-fu session. Maybe a bit cooler than a standard ripe. I would guess, likely not Menghai County material..
2012 Xizi Hao Dragon Brick (7.3)
Brighter nose. Complex, antique wood. Very nice texture. Not super thick. Definitely a more refined sort of tea despite having that familiar vanilla cream taste. I’ve heard that some people think this is small leaf varietal, which is believable for me. Compared to something like the HLH Gaoshan Zhai this offers more texture and a bit less depth.
Overall pretty enjoyable and assuming the 2013 is similar, one of the better value buys.
2007/2008? Chenyuan Hao (6.4)
Only had a sessions worth left. Sweet, has a nice antique wood aroma and a moderately oily body. It’s not watery like the CSH, but doesn’t really stand out that much when put against other fancy ripes. We liked this quite a bit when we had this for an episode, so maybe I just got a lesser session at the bottom of the sample bag.
2008 Xizi Hao Xishangjiaxi (8)
A late addition as I had forgotten about its existence, but I own two mini-cakes of it which I discovered while clearing out my old shu cabinet. In my memory this was a good tea, but didn’t remember much else.
In the end, it’s amongst my favorite brews of the month. Definitely in the refined category of shu. Far more of an aged taste than anything else this month, with menthol, antique wood notes. Coats mouth and throat very well and has better depth than most other teas here. In my previous sessions I had noted berries, which have aged out. Flaw-wise it is not ultra thick, but that is nitpicking as this was a perfectly satisfying session.
CYH/XZH must’ve been pretty early on these special products. I haven’t seen many more as early as this.
2007 Dayi Anxiang (8)
We got a big factory RINGER!!??? What’s a ripe report without some Dayi! Bought a cake recently from taobao. The cakes from the Dayi store came drier stored than I had expected. For the raw this was not exactly what I hoped, but for this cake I think it’s pretty ideal as it maintains a good deal of complexity.
Complex, thick, light mouthcool, antique wood. Coats the mouth nicely. Moderate thickness. It’s tip heavy and falls off a bit fast. This is great stuff. It confuses me how this is still relatively affordable! Perhaps there’s just not too many pu-heads into more serious ripe and the ripe drinkers would never spend this amount on a cake? Either way, this is worth a buy if you are a ripe drinker who wants the good stuff.
Recommendations
If you really want value for your buck. I think the older teas are better. The serious tea world has never seemed to take ripe as seriously as raw, and the prices haven’t risen as fast as raw has. I am surprised at how cheap you can find things like the Anxiang (I bought mine for around $100, $0.25/g). Similarly the XZH Dragon Brick is also a good ripe and can be bought in the US domestically from Liquid Proust for $0.40/g ($400/1000g). This is also a very good price when you put it up against anything made in the last few years.
I haven’t really had any asskicking type ripe older than the 2017 HLH Junai so it’s harder to find this type for less. This is too bad as I think these probably significantly improve with age. For those on a budget the 2024 YS Xin Banzhang offers the basic profile without being too expensive. Probably the best bet here is something like the 2023 YS Chawang, which I preferred over YS LME products and I find to be reasonably close to the more expensive HLH products.
In terms of overall recommendations, I think Reckless Daughter and Lich Tears represent their respective categories of modern boutique ripe very well. They are markedly pricier than the value recommendations but if value is less important I think they’re worth checking out.
Buying these is of not the only way to buy pricy ripe. You could also buy older factory tea from the 2000s or 1990s. These teas are often thought of as superior to their more modern cousins, mostly due to the factories having access to better material.
Value Recs:
2012 Xizi Hao Dragon Brick
2007 Dayi Anxiang
2024 YS Xin Banzhang
2023 YS Chawang (not really cheap, but significantly less than HLH/W2T)
Other Recs:
2021 W2T Reckless Daughter
2022 W2T Lich Tears
Takeaways
It is nice to drink pu’erh without considerations about processing and aging. Drinking ripe tea is more straightforward compared with the vigorous debate about which raw teas are better and will age. Perhaps it’s because all the oxygen is sucked up during those debates, or there’s just less to discuss on the more gradual transformation of ripe.
Is there space in my tea diet for these teas? Frankly I’m not sure. In the past, I’ve historically reached for something older or traditionally stored when I want something in a darker, fermented profile. That being said, the selection we have available now is better than it has been in the past. I do indeed like most of the teas here. So perhaps I’ll report back in a couple years. At worst, for the more refined types I can drink them up in the big blue pot in the morning as an overpriced casual brew.
Ripe narrows the bandwidth of teas compared with raw. In typing up these notes I realized how similar each tea sounds to one another. Even teas that are fairly divergent from one another like the HLH LBZ vs. HLH GSZ will have a fair bit of crossover on notes. I also think I’d burn out of these faster if I drank too many of them. Now… Before I type vanilla cream for the 155th time and am forced to add Masochist to another tea report, I will move on.
This episode I talk a bit about pu’erh I’ve bought in the last few years and drink a relatively recent purchase, 2006 Menghai Tea Factory 8582. The tea is stout, resinous, and enjoyable.
This episode, I bring on another ripe I’ve been storing for several years. Unlike the previous two Dayi episodes, this tea has larger leaf grade (size 8) and features a very different profile. I really enjoy this tea.
This episode, I drink another tippy, premium ripe blend, the 2011 Jade Dew. The tea like the Golden Needle is made by Menghai Tea Factory. Shoutouts to Carl for turning me onto this tea.
This episode I review one of the classic and frequently produced Dayi recipes, their 7572. The tea is the definition of reliable and solid. It is essentially what I want in a regular session of ripe tea, when I am typically looking more for a consistent product than something that wows me into submission.
A solid, well-blended tea from a factory known to make good-quality ripe.
In this episode, I talk about three older Menghai Tea Factory teas that are all around 20 years old. While I don’t drink them on camera, I share my thoughts on each and my overarching impression and how I think they fit into my own understanding of Menghai Tea Factory Tea.
NOTE: I’m not too satisfied with how the video turned out with me reading from a script I pre-wrote. I think it wasn’t particularly well-executed and I’d do it differently if I were to do it again. Nevertheless I think the concept of the episode and what is portrayed still works so I decided to release the video anyways.
This episode, Denny and I drink a special production ripe from last decade, the Star of Menghai. This is a production that is not made every year and is composed of a lot of tippy, gong ting leaves. Thank you to shah for sending this tea in.
Thanks to Nug, I had the opportunity to sample a few older and thereby quite expensive Menghai TF teas. I no longer sample as often as I used to, and try to be focused on very interesting teas when I do. These teas were sold to us by Taizhong based vendor Wang JF who will sell samples of some of his more expensive teas. The teas were naturally stored in Taiwan, and while I do suspect there were some differences in the storage of these teas early on, I think they all fit easily into the TW-natural storage category.
